When & If to tell someone you're trans

[girl2doorsdown]

(With excerpts from my own blog on this site):

Dating can be a touchy endeavor for anyone, regardless of sex, gender, or orientation...but for the transgendered it is exceptionally difficult. Eureka, tell you something you DIDN'T know, right? This forum is about an experience I recently had that brings up, what I feel, is one of the scariest things to face...when and IF to tell someone you're trans.

(I know there will some T-admirers who will read this and say, "It's all good, I accept you, you should go out with someone like me...da da da". I mean no disrespect by this...but speaking for myself, and probably a good portion of girls...I don't want someone to like me for the mere fact that I'm transsexual. It's degrading. Really. If you can understand THAT, you'll understand transwomen, and then you will understand this forum).

About 3 weeks ago I was hanging out with some of my softball teammates after our first game of the season. We were taking back a few brews at one of our leagues sponsor bars, called “Donnies, which happens to be Pittsburghs premier lesbian bar. (Try not to read between the lines. They have good food and cheep beer. True, I am bi, but I wasn't there "on the prowl" so to speak. Let it be known that I have no bias as far as gender¦Im ok with being rejected by both men and women).

Anyway, after hanging out for a while, one of my teammates introduces me to this tall dark and handsome guy and asks if Id like to join in for a game of pool with HIM as my partner. “Hubba hubba, well DUH, I thought¦and gracefully accepted the offer. So this guy is really good looking if I didnt mention that thus far¦and TALL to boot. (Which is a rare thing to find when youre 6²3³ like me). Ok, so¦good-looking guy, here? Hes gotta be gay, right? Well, after making small talk a bit, he and I have a good laugh because it comes out that neither he or I is actually “gay. As it turns out he knows the owners of the bar, and does some construction work on the side for them. Innocent enough. Ok, so the odds of meeting a handsome man at a gay bar who is strait? Probably at least 100,000:1.

So after playing some pool with my friends for a while, he and I start to have a bit of a spark. And I do enjoy a good spark as much as the next girl¦and a little flirty here, a little flirty there¦ya know¦working my game and all. Then, as is usually the case¦I get a call from work and Im summoned to take care of some business. (Yeah, my new policy is to shut my phone off on sundays). So, here I am¦I meet this cute STRAIT guy who is actually into me¦and Ive got to leave and go work. Torn isnt the word. To salvage something, we exchange phone numbers and decide to h--k up the next day for coffee or something. Ok, I can live with that¦its a start, right?

The next day (monday) comes and I decide that I need a day off. I mean, come on¦I took one for the company the night before¦and lets face it, this sort of thing doesnt happen to me every day.

Anyway, I meet up with this guy, and we go to a place called “Shooters, which is this totally nice pool hall/restaurant to hang out. We get there when it actually opens (at 4pm), and we have the place to ourselves. I mean its perfect. No distractions, no smoke¦just him and I and a 9-foot pool table in which to get to know each other over. I might add that since the night before I was in my dusty softball uniform, I actually had a chance to wear something cute. He even made a joking comment that I clean up well. So were playing pool, and getting to know each other¦and the flirting picks up where it left off the night before¦and its starting to get a little heated. Oh, and he even does the classic, “Here, let me show you how to shoot that with his arms around me and everything. And then as time goes by, it hits me like a ton of bricks¦

¦he DOESNT “KNOW (that Im transsexual).

I mean, it didnt even occur to me. Since the night before he treated me great, with respect and everything. And I just ASSUMED that he figured it out. It may be a matter of confidence, which all my friends say I should have more of¦but as most of you know, these things take time. Now, this is like the second time Id been in a situation like this. The first was quite different, but by no means do I have that much experience dealing with such a touchy situation. Now as I pondered the different outcomes, he could see that I was unsettled by something and kept asking what was on my mind. Oh how I wish for a second that we didnt have such great chemistry and spark¦because I would have been content to keep on playing pool, and enjoying what I had. But, like I said¦reality has a way of punching me in the face when Im feeling the best. So after picking at my brain for what seemed like forever, I had him sit down¦I looked him right in the eye¦and I told him the truth.

He was shattered.

We finished our date as cordial as possible, even making light of this news. But after everything was said and done, he didnt want anything after this date. At all. Ever.

So heres the question: SHOULD I have told him?

My feeling is most certainly YES. The reason being is that our interaction was starting to take on a physical nature¦and if it were to go on any further¦like if we kissed or something¦and THEN I told him after that. Well, thats how people get killed.

The other side of that is¦even if I HAD a vagina¦he wasnt getting it ANYWAY. So whats the big deal? Well, my opinion on that will definitely change after I have surgery¦but for now¦I feel that it is the responsible thing to do to tell someone that Im a pre-op transsexual if it appears that things are traveling towards getting physical.

Of course Id rather have THIS problem (of a guy NOT knowing), than to be spotted a mile away (which regrettably enough is the reality that some face). I did learn a few lessons¦the first of which was more of a reinforcement of what I already believed¦and that is to just be myself and let people either accept or reject me based on WHO I am, rather than what is or isnt between my legs. I am happy that I caught the fancy of a strait guy¦and that he didnt have a clue¦so the lesson there is not to doubt myself.

Im okay with things now. From now on Im going to try to have a balance of trying to meet guys out THERE, instead of leaning back on meeting them at "safe" bars or on the internet. Sometimes ya just have to put yourself out there if you ever expect to have some personal growth.

Thats my story, and Im sticking to it:

the Girl 2 Doors Down

Footnote:
He wasnt my type anyway, real domineering and self-absorbed, with a fragile ego to boot. Ya know, the type A that just knows EVERYTHING and everyone else is an idiot. Ah, but I wouldnt have kicked him outta bed anyway. Oh well.

[(deleted)]

.Yeah, it sucks!
Is hard for me to bleieve in people, the net is good, it hurrts, but at least your body is safe, cause it may be a dangerous thing to go clubbing for pals!

[(deleted)]

`It is what it is.... you arent gg you cannot in good faith lie to a man about reality... you should be happy you were atleast hot enough he didn't know at first.

it is a real buzzkill ,,, but its better than an actual kill.

[dynex10]

`I'm sort of on the fence on this one. Obviously, personal safety is and has to be the primary concern- without question.

I think the internet is great for chatting, but thats about it. You can email forever and never really know who you are talking to, so although someone may seem great, you still have no idea who they are. I like to make "cyber friends", but I get sketched out by the thought of actually meeting someone that way. If it works for you- then please, by all means.

As for whether or not you should tell the guy that you are a transsexual, well, if he can't tell you're doing a great job. But at the same time, he has the right to know.

Maybe its about the timing. Make sure he knows before things get to the point where it may become serious and that he is okay with it. I just think it would keep you from getting your hopes too high for something that won't work and prevent him from doing something he wouldn't want to.

A lot of guys out there are jerks. Try to be careful.

[melbtrans]

Im sorry you had to endure that last critical moment of moments and tell him.
But at least you were honest enough to tell him and i think that is what counts in the end.

I try to do my best explaining to 2 households what transsexuality is and the what nots of it, but it just falls on deaf ears, suffice to say that at least your date ( handsome as he was ) was courteous enough to be honest with you. and not the violent type like i have experienced personally from 1 housemate in the rooming house i live in.

I think personally, you are better off telling people straight out your a transsexual/ transgendered person, because that way you don't have to tolerate any let downs from the start and if they have problems with it, at least you have your friends to protect you and to lean on for support.



Im coming clean to 17 people + in the next few weeks why i been "smelling funny" and i am so going to enjoy the jaw dropping.
I know it wont be all laughs and stuff but at least i will be able to take a leaf from your book and say it honestly instead of hiding.

So thank you for a nice inspiritational but heartbreaking scenario and i hope you have better luck next time when a hot date happens along.

Leanne


Life is a river, sometimes far and wide, sometimes narrow and short,
But no matter the direction of the current, it is the person that gazes upon
the waters reflections, that make the decisions for which they travel.

[(deleted)]

`When I was Pre-Op I had been dating a guy for three years and it was very difficult at times. I had met him in Spain where I was dancing in a show and he worked in a bar that we all used to go to after work..Cut a long story short;-) we used to flirt blah blah blah, anyhoo I eventually told him and he backed off totally which was cool, but a few weeks later he came to the show saying he couldn't stop thinking about Me and his head was mashed thinking that he must be gay? I'm not into getting straight boys into bed just for the sake of it, nor am I the type to pander to others..I just told him to think about it some more and I'm here if and when?
So some guys can see past whats in your panties and take you for who you are and not what you are! But yes for sure I told EVERY ONE that came onto Me what I was!
Now Post-Op for the past eleven years I live by the same rule, I believe that every one has the right to choose, I wouldn't like to be fooled by some one so I give the same respect to others. I'm a Trans Female and I'm proud of that fact, ok I dont want to be with some one who's only interest in Me is the fact that I'm TS, I'm not talking about guys that only date TS's openly and honestly, just those that want to see us in the dead of night and in secret!
As years have passed Ive managed to sift through those who consider Me a fairground attraction and those that see Me for the person that I am;-)

Best wishes to you..
x

[lisaevecali]

I let them know as soon as they ask me out normally - until then I just keep quiet. I just got asked out a few days ago at best-buy and I did not have the heart to tell him - he seemed so pleased with himself that he got my number. I did ask him to read my myspace before he called. I have not gotten a call yet but it was a lot better then the normal look I get when I tell them.

I really hate that moment - the disclosure dance. They always look for some hope and say something like, "but you have had the surgery right?" When I say "no" it always takes another bad turn. I really hate that look on there face - like I just ran over their dog.

I believe being up front is safer and more respectful. I'm liking the, "Check my myspace first" approach. Then I don't have to be there for that awful look.

[girl2doorsdown]

`Wow, thank you everyone so much for reading, and for sharing your own stories and feedback.

I know it's been almost 6 months since I originally posted this thread, but I had another experience last month that relates to what we've been discussing. This is actually kinda cute...because I never thought that a guy might actually find certain "butch" qualities to be hot. (Then again, I've heard guys say they like when chicks wear ball caps and such).

Anyway, last month I went on a bus trip from Pittsburgh to Cincinnati for a football game. I was invited by some acquaintances I know from work. I thought it was innocent enough. I've read that Pittsburgh has a high percentage of female football fans. (Must be something in the 3 rivers).

It's like a weekend deal right, with transportation, room, & ticket altogether. So, we board the bus early Saturday morning and to my chagrin, on a bus with capacity for ~50, myself & one other are the ONLY girls on the trip. Ok, it's a double-edged sword. I liked and didn't like all the attention. And YES, I'm a tomboy anyway...but GEEZ, you could have walked from here to Cincy on the testosterone that was on the bus.

Anyway, we end up stopping near Columbus, OH to get some brunch. We all file off the bus to the awaiting arms of Mcy-D's. Surprisingly enough, most of the guys on the bus were younger (20-somethings), but were very accommodating and gentleman when it came to me. (Well, except for the midget ---- and pot smoking they did on the bus, but other than that, they treated me great).

HERE'S THE GOOD PART (and the point of my post)

After the meal, a bunch of the guys are waiting for the rest to finish...and to kill time are throwing a football around in the parking lot. Now, there are 3 things in this world that I simply can't resist...they are: dancing to the Rolling Stones, snowball fights, and throwing the ol' pigskin around.

I know how guys are, so I'm like "hey, over here"! (clapping my hands). One of the guys throws me the ball...and of course I make the "diamond hand" form and catch it with my fingers (like my old man taught me). Then I do a cute little shimmy-dropback, little sultry pump fake...and I'm like, "go deep" (waving my army). Obviously jockying for attention, about 7 guys start running routes all calling for the ball. (YES, I was soaking it all up - I'm grinning now thinking about it).

So I lean back and heave that ball for all it's worth.....

....it was simply the most beautiful spiral I EVER threw in my whole life.

Jaws dropped everywhere.

Oh, then I was accepted as "one of the guys", and they were like, "Kassie, go deep babe"!

I was in heaven. Really.

I was told later that I had caught more than just a few footballs, I had also caught the fancy of a few of the guys.

So, what's the moral of the story? I suppose it's that you should always be YOURSELF 1st, and not worry so much about being trans. I never told any of those guys I was trans. Later that night and again at the game I took back some beers with the fellas...and they treated me like a million bucks. I was a special lady to them...even though they didn't know I was trans. That's what I'M talking about.

On another note...I think it's important to make an effort to relate to guys in some way. Sure, being a lady is important...but being approachable is important too. That lesson is reinforced daily in my life.

Squashing out sexism,

The Girl 2 Doors Down

p.s. WE DEY!
Steelers 38, Bengals 10

[girl2doorsdown]

`Oops, I did it again.

You know...it's getting to the point where I'm just going to hack "it" of with a cleaver.

Of course I'm being over-dramatic...but I met someone (again) the other night who I really hit it off with, but COULDN'T take it to the next level because of (this).

So, Friday night I went to a X-mas party that was held at a small local bar in the greater Pittsburgh area. This was a "strait" bar for the record. Now, I didn't know many people, so I decided to mingle with those that I did, and hope that I wouldn't have to break the $20 in my pocket to buy myself any beers.

IT WORKED!

Almost immediately after I sat down at the end of the bar, one of the people that I DID know introduced me to a few of her friends. (And, just for the record...this girl friend of mine "knows" about me - that I'm trans. But since this was a "biker-type" bar...I know she'd NEVER tell anyone else). Ok, so the people at this party were so friendly...and I'm like a total social butterfly and can get along with anyone.

So, we all start talking...and then the shots come out. Jack Daniels all the way around. Now, I don't know what it's like where YOU are from...but in rural SW Pa...when you do shots with people...you're like best friends afterwards. It was fun, really.

Now, way before anyone started getting drunk...the guys wanted hugs from me and stuff like that (ok, maybe they were a LITTLE drunk - amd coming on to me)...and the guys wanted to stand next to me...to see how tall I was. They were hitting on me BIG TIME. They were like, "Oh my god...are you like a model" (and stuff of this nature).

There was this one guy in particular who was a total gentleman and was telling me jokes, making me laugh my --- off, and buying me drinks like no tomorrow. Now, he was a bit short...and on the heavy set side...but I like people for the way they make me feel...and the way they treat me. And this guy made me feel like a million bucks! So he and I sat there pretty much the whole night...dancing in our chairs to AC/DC...drinking shots & beers...having a good old time, right.

So after a while he's like, "you know...this NEVER happens to me. I never get to meet a beautiful girl and like totally be the center of her attention all night". I gave him yet another hug, and even a peck on the cheek for that one...because I realized after all was said and done...he was just as lonely as me.

After a couple of hours...we ended up closing the place out...and he ended up walking me to my car. (This was 5 beers, 2 shots, & 3 pieces of pizza from the beginning of the story). Now, I was fine...being the big B---- that I am...but he talked to me outside about how much he'd love to see me again sometime...and that how this was one of the best nights of his life. I was blown away, I tell ya. I told him that we were cool...we exchanged numbers...and I told him that I'd look forward to seeing him again too. We didn't kiss (on the lips)...but we hugged for a bit...and we kissed each other on the cheek (he's old-fashioned type too).

Now, here's the problem that ties in with the topic of the tread...WHEN SHOULD I TELL HIM I'M TRANS?

It's SO difficult. Here I meet someone who likes me because I'm a tall, pretty, funny, interesting girl, who likes beer, and can talk football...and I'm stranded on an island because I KNOW that this guy would be totally shattered if I told him.

This is getting SO ridiculous. Anyone have any advice or input...it would be greatly appreciated.

Girl 2 Doors Down

[semco72057]

girl2doorsdown wrote: (With excerpts from my own blog on this site):

Dating can be a touchy endeavor for anyone, regardless of sex, gender, or orientation...but for the transgendered it is exceptionally difficult. Eureka, tell you something you DIDN'T know, right? This forum is about an experience I recently had that brings up, what I feel, is one of the scariest things to face...when and IF to tell someone you're trans.

(I know there will some T-admirers who will read this and say, "It's all good, I accept you, you should go out with someone like me...da da da". I mean no disrespect by this...but speaking for myself, and probably a good portion of girls...I don't want someone to like me for the mere fact that I'm transsexual. It's degrading. Really. If you can understand THAT, you'll understand transwomen, and then you will understand this forum).

About 3 weeks ago I was hanging out with some of my softball teammates after our first game of the season. We were taking back a few brews at one of our leagues sponsor bars, called “Donnies, which happens to be Pittsburghs premier lesbian bar. (Try not to read between the lines. They have good food and cheep beer. True, I am bi, but I wasn't there "on the prowl" so to speak. Let it be known that I have no bias as far as gender¦Im ok with being rejected by both men and women).

Anyway, after hanging out for a while, one of my teammates introduces me to this tall dark and handsome guy and asks if Id like to join in for a game of pool with HIM as my partner. “Hubba hubba, well DUH, I thought¦and gracefully accepted the offer. So this guy is really good looking if I didnt mention that thus far¦and TALL to boot. (Which is a rare thing to find when youre 6²3³ like me). Ok, so¦good-looking guy, here? Hes gotta be gay, right? Well, after making small talk a bit, he and I have a good laugh because it comes out that neither he or I is actually “gay. As it turns out he knows the owners of the bar, and does some construction work on the side for them. Innocent enough. Ok, so the odds of meeting a handsome man at a gay bar who is strait? Probably at least 100,000:1.

So after playing some pool with my friends for a while, he and I start to have a bit of a spark. And I do enjoy a good spark as much as the next girl¦and a little flirty here, a little flirty there¦ya know¦working my game and all. Then, as is usually the case¦I get a call from work and Im summoned to take care of some business. (Yeah, my new policy is to shut my phone off on sundays). So, here I am¦I meet this cute STRAIT guy who is actually into me¦and Ive got to leave and go work. Torn isnt the word. To salvage something, we exchange phone numbers and decide to h--k up the next day for coffee or something. Ok, I can live with that¦its a start, right?

The next day (monday) comes and I decide that I need a day off. I mean, come on¦I took one for the company the night before¦and lets face it, this sort of thing doesnt happen to me every day.

Anyway, I meet up with this guy, and we go to a place called “Shooters, which is this totally nice pool hall/restaurant to hang out. We get there when it actually opens (at 4pm), and we have the place to ourselves. I mean its perfect. No distractions, no smoke¦just him and I and a 9-foot pool table in which to get to know each other over. I might add that since the night before I was in my dusty softball uniform, I actually had a chance to wear something cute. He even made a joking comment that I clean up well. So were playing pool, and getting to know each other¦and the flirting picks up where it left off the night before¦and its starting to get a little heated. Oh, and he even does the classic, “Here, let me show you how to shoot that with his arms around me and everything. And then as time goes by, it hits me like a ton of bricks¦

¦he DOESNT “KNOW (that Im transsexual).

I mean, it didnt even occur to me. Since the night before he treated me great, with respect and everything. And I just ASSUMED that he figured it out. It may be a matter of confidence, which all my friends say I should have more of¦but as most of you know, these things take time. Now, this is like the second time Id been in a situation like this. The first was quite different, but by no means do I have that much experience dealing with such a touchy situation. Now as I pondered the different outcomes, he could see that I was unsettled by something and kept asking what was on my mind. Oh how I wish for a second that we didnt have such great chemistry and spark¦because I would have been content to keep on playing pool, and enjoying what I had. But, like I said¦reality has a way of punching me in the face when Im feeling the best. So after picking at my brain for what seemed like forever, I had him sit down¦I looked him right in the eye¦and I told him the truth.

He was shattered.

We finished our date as cordial as possible, even making light of this news. But after everything was said and done, he didnt want anything after this date. At all. Ever.

So heres the question: SHOULD I have told him?

My feeling is most certainly YES. The reason being is that our interaction was starting to take on a physical nature¦and if it were to go on any further¦like if we kissed or something¦and THEN I told him after that. Well, thats how people get killed.

The other side of that is¦even if I HAD a vagina¦he wasnt getting it ANYWAY. So whats the big deal? Well, my opinion on that will definitely change after I have surgery¦but for now¦I feel that it is the responsible thing to do to tell someone that Im a pre-op transsexual if it appears that things are traveling towards getting physical.

Of course Id rather have THIS problem (of a guy NOT knowing), than to be spotted a mile away (which regrettably enough is the reality that some face). I did learn a few lessons¦the first of which was more of a reinforcement of what I already believed¦and that is to just be myself and let people either accept or reject me based on WHO I am, rather than what is or isnt between my legs. I am happy that I caught the fancy of a strait guy¦and that he didnt have a clue¦so the lesson there is not to doubt myself.

Im okay with things now. From now on Im going to try to have a balance of trying to meet guys out THERE, instead of leaning back on meeting them at "safe" bars or on the internet. Sometimes ya just have to put yourself out there if you ever expect to have some personal growth.

Thats my story, and Im sticking to it:

the Girl 2 Doors Down

Footnote:
He wasnt my type anyway, real domineering and self-absorbed, with a fragile ego to boot. Ya know, the type A that just knows EVERYTHING and everyone else is an idiot. Ah, but I wouldnt have kicked him outta bed anyway. Oh well.





My name is Sidney, and I am from Arkansas and know some of what you are talking about. I'm a bi guy who date transgenders and usually meet those I date at a club where we can talk and get to know each other. Too many people lie on the internet and even though I'm not easily shocked would rather be on a first date to get to know each other.

That way you get to know those who are into themselves, arrogant, selfish, etc. I have had a live in relationship where I met this lady at a gay/lesbian club and we got to know each other before getting serious about each other. We lived together for about a year before I left California for Arkansas. She didn't want to move so we parted as friends. After hearing the horror stories from people in California, Lousiana, Texas, and here I would recommend telling your date that you are trans so they can deal with it or not right then and there. It's difficult because you may not want to lose your right man/woman, but some people take it the wrong way and get very angry and violent when surprised.

My first night with a tgirl was in Thailand while in the military and she approached me on the streets and didn't tell me that she was a transgendered girl and I went back to her place with her. Upon arriving there I found that she had a roommate who joined in with her. That didn't bother me, but when she kept wanting to go down on me rather than have regular S-- I became suspicious. She kept brushing my hand away when I tried to reach into her panties she would brush my hand away and later I told her that I wanted to ---- her, she finally turned off the lights and undressed with me in bed. I told her that I was okay with her being male since she was so pretty and that was that and we spent the rest of the night together.

Some guys picked up ladies like I did and wasn't okay with finding that their woman had a c--- between her legs. They beat them up and that was a "No No" in Thailand and some of them ended up being shot dead for it. For that reason I would recommend that somewhere along the way the date should know before you decide to go to bed with them.

[(deleted)]

`I have had some experience with dating male-to-female transsexuals. Every time I've dated one, I find out about her secret beforehand. I'm very comfortable with the fact she was born a boy. To me, it doesn't matter whether the woman was born male or female...as long as she's a beautiful woman in my eyes, that's the most important thing to me.

None of my dates with transsexuals have gone further than a deep kiss. There have been a few I've gone out with more than once. All but one of the male-to-female transsexuals I've gone out with have been pre-op. I've dated one post-op TS. Although St. Louis, where I live, is a large metropolitan area, the opportunities for dating male-to-female transsexuals (or any woman thereof) are few and far in between.

As for sex, I would rather wait until I get to know her very well, and after she has her operation. I prefer holding her and kissing her deeply and tenderly, myself.

[(deleted)]

`I hate that moment where you gotta tell. And don't ever assume someone knows, 'cause they don't always. o_0

Being post-op, I'll admit that there was one person that I slept with a couple of times who didn't know. I probably should have said something, but I didn't... he got all worried that I might be pregnant 'cause we didn't use protection (I know, I know).

Pre-op, I have a couple of stories -- a couple where I'm pretty lucky I wasn't killed or anything.

One, I went home with a guy, got mostly naked -- but I drank too much, and I puked all over... that actually saved my butt 'cause he didn't know. o_0

Another time, a guy came home with me and I, again, assumed he'd probably know. Well, he didn't know until we were naked. o_0 I confused the hell out of him, and he left.

Anyway, yeah, it can be very, very difficult to to say it sometimes. Also, sometimes we just figure the other person probably figured it out (not always the case).

Being post-op, it doesn't get easier. Part of you knows that you could probably get away with it, but then if you get close, you don't like hiding the fact and of course, what if he found out via another source? It lands a mental mind-battle.

[1sebastian]

`I completely agree that you should tell someone.

The only thing I am confused on is when to? 0_o

I mean if you two hit it off, but you don't tell them until its getting to the point where it might get physical, will they seem betrayed? Perhaps I should just worry about when I feel it is time.

Sadly I am usually viewed as a 12 yr old boy, so I have no clue where to start with girls. And it doesn't help that I am new to the world of dating either @_@

[(deleted)]

`Cisgender opinion here: I want to know when it's relevant. I mean, I'm nosy, but if you don't tell me before going to bed, I'm going to yell followed by never speaking to you again. If it's something I can see and you attempted to "trap" me by not informing me so I could make a decision. Ten minutes before bed is not adequate either. Third, fourth, or fifth dates are reasonable times. Before then is fine, but I understand it's private information. I don't disclose all my health information before getting close to someone, but I do tell it days before sleeping together is an option. I expect the same courtesy.

[wolfy99]

`I would say that generally during the second date would be fine. 5 minutes before before S-- would be bad.

I do think that it depends on the person you're with. If he is some macho transsexual, gay, hating guy best to just call it a night when you get that vibe. I'm a straight male and I told my friends that a guy asked me out once. You should have heard them. "I would have punched him" "I'd kick the &%$ out of him" I couldn't believe it. So whatever you decide pick what's safest first.