Everyone wants an MtF but not an FtM?

[(deleted)]

@new2everything! What the hell is that crap supposed to mean?.

I am MtF and i find your post an insult to any FtM ! As with most gentic born men your brain is about 3 feet from the ground! How can you expect anyone to take what you have posted without being insulted? .

YOUR WORDS! I think dating a FtM would be the best of both worlds , i get a cute guy i,m attracted to and can enjoy the company of another dude yet still be attracted "below the belt" .

Why don't you just say you will still see that "man" as a woman? because thats what your pathetic post amounts to! My god you realy do not have a clue do you? And then to top it all you say "Your not interested in another mans junk" I pressume your not talking about whats in his back yard?.

You want a cute guy? then go find a genetic one because if you cannot even start to understand how people like you make any trans person feels then you are on the wrong website.

At the end of most of my mails or posts i say "You take care" BUT YOU No! take a walk in the traffic at rush hour or stay in that water and with any luck a shark may fancy a "little" snack and take your manhood.

[new2everything]

julia4you wrote:

YOUR WORDS! I think dating a FtM would be the best of both worlds , i get a cute guy i,m attracted to and can enjoy the company of another dude yet still be attracted "below the belt" .

Why don't you just say you will still see that "man" as a woman? because thats what your pathetic post amounts to!


Why don't i say that i will see a man as a woman based on their genitalia? Because i dont. Do you? I never said a person's gender was based on what their gearing below the belt. That is you putting words in my mouth.

[(deleted)]

`@new2everything I will advise you to stop digging yourself a hole rite now! I would say "YOU" have put your foot in your mouth not me putting words in it! You wrote what you wrote.

Being gay is not a crime so just admit you are then you can get on with your life and find a man in your gay bar "but" do not try to use a FtM a your excuse for your own denial "it is insulting"

I will also advise you "not" to play with fire "You will get burnt".

[new2everything]

julia4you wrote: `@new2everything I will advise you to stop digging yourself a hole rite now! I would say "YOU" have put your foot in your mouth not me putting words in it! You wrote what you wrote.

Being gay is not a crime so just admit you are then you can get on with your life and find a man in your gay bar "but" do not try to use a FtM a your excuse for your own denial "it is insulting"

I will also advise you "not" to play with fire "You will get burnt".



I am hardly digging myself a hole. Stop taking offense at everything i say. You are the one who had issues with what i said originally. None of that post was meant to offend you. As you might of picked up from my username, this is new to me. Tell me how it was offensive to you. Say something constructive not crying about some person you think you understand because you dont know me. I know you are going to say you understand me. But you dont. You are basing this entire tirade about one single post. That hardly says anything about me. You haven't even looked at my profile.

I never said being a gay is a crime. That again is you putting words into my mouth. Hell my brother and lots of my friends are gay. I have no problems with people who are gay. If you had taken a second to check out my profile, you could see that i dont have myself listed as straight. FYI when i do go to gay bars, i have no problem with other guys. I just don't want to go home with a guy who has a ----- (this IS the dating & --- forum - RIGHT?). If you haven't gotten it by now, that's what this site is about, finding people who are themselves, outside the stereotypical societal views.

Please explain to me how im trying to "use" someone as an excuse for my own denial. Everyone is attracted to certain things about other people. So you are going to tell me that what i am attracted to is wrong?

You seem to be a very angry person and I'm hardly playing with fire with you. I'll get burned over the internet? Don't make me laugh. If you want to continue this tirade, please send me a message and ill talk to you about it.

[(deleted)]

`@new2everything Put your brain in gear! You "are" playing with fire .

Ok you do not want a man with a -----? What the hell do you think a post op FtM is? He has a -----! you still want to see the woman? shes not there she never was so you only want a pre op FtM then? He is not a she ----- or no ----- .

You are one very confused individual and what you have posted doe's offend me because i work with agencies that support trans men and women .

If you carry this on you will be the one removed from this site not me! "Your hole is getting deeper" .

You do not know me! but i come across idiots like you all the time! i spend a lot of my own time and money teaching others through the media about trans peoples lives and what we have to go through "for what"? to be ourselves then have to put up with ignorant people.

One thing i am not is angry i am very happy with my life but if i or others do not correct people like you you will never learn.

"End this now" as if you follow this up with more excuses i will ask the site to stop your insulting comments "And they are insulting" to any trans person of both genders.

[new2everything]

`Response sent via email.

[feedback]

Generally, we try to stay out of the forums, but there seems to be some tension here that really needn't be here.

As a reminder, this site is for anyone and everyone who is either already a part of the 'Trans' community, or for those who are interested in those who are part of the 'Trans' community.

Our opinion is that members who are honest about themselves and the type of person they are looking for should be welcomed into the site.

A bisexual man who expresses a desire for a FTM who has not had 'bottom surgery' is completely welcome on this site.

In fact, since there are many, many FTM's who either are not ready to pursue bottom surgery, or who just choose not to, it would seem that this site would be perfect for such a member.

We would like to see members embrace the WIDE diversity that is comprised within the 'Trans' community, and even when there are personal disagreements, that they try to realize that EVERY individual is exactly that...an individual...with their own personal likes and dislikes.

If any FTM's are in fact concerned with the comments in this thread, then perhaps they would be better suited to discuss whether or not something posted is upsetting or whether or not it provides hope for those FTM's who don't ever expect to have 'bottom surgery'.

For all we know, there are already FTM members who are reading this thread and thinking 'Thank God there are guys out there who will accept me as a man...even if I continue to have female genitalia for the rest of my life'.

The one thing we know though is that we encourage members of the site to speak out about themselves openly and honestly...and we HIGHLY discourage personal attacks of any kind.

It discourages open and honest discusssions within the forum...and it scares off new members...and it's just not nice.

So, let's all try to play nice, and accept the wide diversity that makes up the range of ------ity and gender represented within this site.

Thanks,



.

[(deleted)]

`Feedback! I welcome your response to this "but" although as you say anyone is welcome on this site you know as well as i do that if you look through these forums you will see over and over again the words "Former member". I actualy take the time to see why they are former members! and i would say at the very least 8 out of 10 have left this site through ignorance inflicted by genetic medmirers who do not "or" do not even try to understand.

What this member said in this Thread is insulting! And i will explain why.

To post a comment saying "I am not interested in another mans junk" And anyone with a brain knows he means that mans genitals could knock a Female to males confidence for 6 .

When a person wether they be male or female are on thier road to surgery to have thier bodys corrected to the gender they are and identifie as they do not want to have thier "new genitals" refered to as junk! To that person it is thier goal in life .

All members have thier own preferences but you and other members have to realise there are actualy real people on here with real feelings looking for friends and support not insults "That comment was deeply offensive" .

I have attended to many funerals this year of trans people who have ended thier lives all because of lack of understanding and here in the UK i am actualy making a difference! I would so much love to put links on this site to published articals about my life and what i have achieved in the past few years "I have saved lives" and to me that means my life has had a purpose .At this time i do not think this site is a safe place for those articals to be linked to but i hope that will change soon and i would like to think that the next artical that i could reccomend this site as well as the others i do .

Next year my wish is to not have to attend a funeral of another suicide victim who ended thier life through just plain ignorance and lack of understanding for them just wanting to be themselves.

I would like to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas and a new year with peace love and most of all just a little bit more understanding . I don't think thats to much to ask for .


I will just add that if i see another comment like that in any forum i will respond to it and correct them because i will not sit back and ignore it because as far as i know the word "ignore" is derived from the word "Ignorance" and i will put a stop to that ignorance..

Julia .

[feedback]

While everyone is welcome to their opinion, and while we encourage open discussion, direct personal attacks are NOT permitted.

If anyone is offended by a comment in a forum, they are more than welcome to say something like 'I find that comment to be offensive because I think that...' or 'Hmm, if I understand what you are saying, then don't you think that that might be offensive to people who are dealing with...'.

We do not like blanket statements where any individual presumes to speak for the entirety of the Trans community, based on their own perceptions of what is and is not offensive.

EVERYONE views things differently.

The term ------- is highly offensive to many people in the U.S., Canada, and parts of Europe...while being a common place 'non-offensive' term used in Eastern Europe and Asia.

It would be completely inappropriate for someone to lash out at another member based on their personal cultural perception of a term used in a forum post. (They are welcome to contact us to have us to review it though.)

In this particular case, the issue at hand directly involves FTM's and we find it surprising that a MTF has taken it upon herself to lash out at a new member for his honest explanation as to what he is looking for in someone.

While there are shared issues that MTF's and FTM's can relate to, there are also highly divergent issues.

While any member of the site is welcome to express their opinion, it only makes sense that FTM's are really the members who can speak to how this issue effects them directly.

And even then, no one FTM member should think that they have the right to declare what is and is not offensive to the community at large.

And we definitely do not want any member to use the threat of contacting us as a way to increase pressure on a member to change their views or to modify what they post in the forum area.

That is a threat, and it is not permitted in the TOS (Terms of Service).

The appropriate action is to report any post that is perceived to be a violation of the TOS and we will take a look to see what we think.

So...bottom line...no one person (aside from us) speaks for the site,.

And we do not think that anyone should presume to speak for the whole of the 'Trans' community, especially when considering the rather significant differences experienced by FTM's and MTF's.

We love that people are open and honest about their opinions within the forum, but civility is expected, and personal attacks are not allowed.

And lastly...we were not offended in the least by the exact post that has caused this conflict. Our guess is that part of the reaction to all this (again) stems from a cultural difference in the use of a slang term.

In the past, the term 't---' was questioned as to why it was being censured on the site, because it is a common term in one area...and a somewhat crass slang term in another area.

In this case, apparently the use of the term 'junk' is being considered by one member to be a derogatory term meant to 'put down' or 'comment negatively' on men's genitals. While that may be the perception in the U.K., it should be noted that in the U.S., the term 'junk' is commonly used to refer to a man's 'equipment' with no (or practically no) negative connotation whatsoever.

It is just a (non-offensive) slang term (in the U.S.) to refer to 'that stuff down there' that can be used in mixed company WITHOUT the risk of offending people because is it somewhat general and/or generic...rather than using terms like d--- or c---, or the more specific ----- and testicles.

It appears to us that perhaps all of this might have devolved from the cultural misperception of a common slang term...although it took awhile for us to realize that that might be the case.

Thanks,



.

[phellum]

This really is a very complicated issue - not one, I must admit, I've really considered much until reading this thread despite the considerable thought I've given to ------ identity, ------ orientation and masculinity/femininity.

It seems to me that this relates to the very complex role that the combination of gender identity, ------ orientation, anatomy and gender traits (masculine/feminine traits as distinct from gender identity) plays in our attraction to a potential partner.

It may be that there are a lot of straight women (and possibly gay men) who view naturally functioning genitalia as a necessary component of "manhood." This would, if true, reduce the number of potential partners for all those who are FTM. A post-op MTF is more likely to be accepted as female because... this is very odd to say, but... because, generally speaking, a vagina doesn't need to do something, really, in order for a man to view it as "womanly". The number of straight men and gay women who would view a pre-op MTF as "womanly" is reduced to those who can be comfortable that she has male genitalia, but there may be more of those than straight women and gay men who would be able to accept female genitalia on a FTM. Does that make any sense?

I'm sure there's more to it than simply this, but I think this is likely a contributing factor to what you're asking about.

[feedback]

Thanks for your contribution phellum.

This is a rather complicated issue since it touches on a number of sensitive issues.

What would be great would be if some FTM members would contribute to this discussion.

It would be nice to hear directly from some members as to how they view the relatively recent comment in this thread that has spawned this discussion...and for them to comment in general on how important 'bottom surgery' is for them in their self-perception as a male.

Our guess is that for some it is critical, while for others, it is irrelevant...but it would be nice to have FTM's step in and speak to this directly.

Why is that straight men, bisexual men, and MTF's seem to be the primary 'commenters' on an issue that is very specifically 'FTM-centric'?

We certainly have enough FTM's on the site that some should feel comfortable commenting on this issue.

Thanks,


.

[phellum]

feedback wrote: Why is that straight men, bisexual men, and MTF's seem to be the primary 'commenters' on an issue that is very specifically 'FTM-centric'?


Perhaps, it's because straight men, bisexual men and MTFs are the object of the discussion - it seems to be directed at them for an answer... and, straight and bisexual men in particular, would have a better idea of why they would or wouldn't want to "date/be with/sleep with/etc an MtF but not an FtM". And an MTF might be able to provide a perspective on why men find them attractive that would help the original poster in finding an answer. It is the opinions of straight and bisexual men regarding FTMs compared to their opinions regarding MTFs that are the issue in the original post.

Though, I agree, it would be great to hear from more FTMs on the issue.

[(deleted)]

`Feedback! Well we agree on 2 things! This is a complicated subject and i would like to hear the thoughts on this from a FTM but i doubt you will get a response from one and that is why i posted here because somone has to stand up for them.

I will just let you know that here in the UK "junk" means what you in the U.S call trash! stuff you throw away because it no longer has a use and that is why i find it offensive.

Me being MTF have a very good understanding of how it feels to be in the wrong body and how tormenting it is for us to get that corrected and when i read things like what caused me to post here in this thread i feel i have to say something and the sad thing to me is that what that person posted is just ------! If you read carefully it just goe's back to the same old subject on most mens minds "sex".

I joined this site to get away from that as there are to many --- sites around .I very rarely have an email from a man that doe's not jump into that subject from the start . Last week i recieved a very polite email from a man in the U.S and he got a very polite reply then yesterday i opened another one from him and guess what? SEX! .

I have made some very good friends who i can have a good conversation with not involving --- who i will stay in contact with . One of those very good friends sent me a personal email a few days ago saying "I am sick of this site allowing people to call us "transsexuals" you would think they would put a stop to it".

I seriously think you don,t care how many "former members" you see in these forums and i will now tell you that you will end up with a website that only consists of members of men and females that have no intention of either looking for a date or contributeing in these forums "they will die" (the forums that is) and if you sit back and let it happen then the site will die with it.

I have said in the past i am going to delete my account but i have ---- around and given support when people came to me feeling down and i have spoken up for those who do not feel strong enougth to do it themselves but this is now most likely last post! you want former members? just say the word and i will be gone .

As i have been the most active member on this site in the forums this year standing up for what i believe in and fight for in my real life not only here on this site i think that will leave some very big gaps.

I do not like failure! i truely would like to see this site grow but if you continue to let go where it is you will end up being just another --- site.

I know i have covered more than one topic here but as i said this is most likely my last post.

I will still as before wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a new year of peace .

Julia.

[jc93]

Well I'm the only tg around where I live and me and every ftm I know has troublee finding dates. Which I only know a few anyway. I think its all about the area u live and people who live in it.

[phellum]

jc93 wrote: I think its all about the area u live and people who live in it.


I think that may also play some part in it... open-mindedness when it comes to the spectrum of human ------ity can certainly vary depending on where you live.